Share what you know about special operations/forces groups.

[ImmaTERRARIST]

I had another thread where we deviated until we were talking about clandestine operations and their dressing attire.
Specifically, it was about regular army units (SF) wearing civvies. It then reminded me about the little known 14th Company in the British Intelligence.

I know that the SAS carries out its duties in jeans and t-shirt with a bad haircut. There was once an autobiography i picked up from some library called "The Company" about the 14th Company (Special Operations) from UK. More elite and underground than SAS. The guy describes of an operation against the IRA by hitting their road checkpoints. He worked with SAS and they donned cv attire.

They drove a car to the IRA checkpoints on the road junction and just wasted them. The SAS guy on the backseat used a shotgun, and in the confines of the car the gunfire was so loud it was painful and disorienting. Many of the operations conducted overseas was done in cv attire as well when they (incl the SAS and SBS) recce an AOR before returning to designated conc area to pick up their arms and gear and then head out in the dark (still in jeans and wooly [woolen sweater]) to conduct hit and run on their targets.

What other stuff about other SF groups have you heard about?

[ImmaTERRARIST]

I know the Sayaret Matkal and Flotilla 14 sometimes conduct their operations in civvies too.

[randomtrader....]

Actually SAS not only conduct operations in cv gear,they conducted recon in Iraq in uniform as well during the gulf war,and the infamous "Bravo two Zero" patrol,go google if you never heard about them.

and other special forces unit...the Navy SEALs? i'm sure everyone has heard of them?and...SEAL team 6? 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCkQ3l1es-g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCkQ3l1es-g</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A8Yax-gZ8Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A8Yax-gZ8Q</a>

Here's one from Vietnam,LRRP/Rangers
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Ne4p25_lQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Ne4p25_lQ</a>

[ImmaTERRARIST]

Bravo Two Zero? I read Andy McNab and Chris Ryan's book on their escape and the damage they inflicted was pretty massive for so small a number.

One thing that puzzled me to this day was how the ZSU-57 round that stuck one of them in their bergen (which was a dud) failed to penetrate through the bergen and kill the operative.

A friend from SOC once joked that if war comes he'll wear civvies and plant claymore mines around a durian farm and jealously guard it. I think in war time, durian would be like gold.

 Anyway aside to it, SF units wear their uniform but admittedly out in the field, they do not always adhere to the coded attire. HistoricThirdWard on youtube is an ex-green beret who left the service in A-stan after disagreeing with the policies. Go see his videos about a-stan. they are hilarious.
but its common to see them wear their unit pants and some random t-shirt and operator's vest.

[randomtrader....]

Well,their bergen are not the like the SAF ones,those are massive,just stuffed with equipment and food,hence it did not penetrate,and the irregular dress rules applies to Tier 1,and only very rarely for tier 2..so most likely you seen tier 1 operators and maybe the SAS..

[bulletz4life]

Well,their bergen are not the like the SAF ones,those are massive,just stuffed with equipment and food,hence it did not penetrate,and the irregular dress rules applies to Tier 1,and only very rarely for tier 2..so most likely you seen tier 1 operators and maybe the SAS..

I heard the SAS' bergens are massively resistant cos its heavily stuffed. In the case of Bravo-Two-Zero, they carried a sandbag stuffed with food, another sandbag stuffed with TWO NBC suits, extra ammo bandoliers and a 23 litre jerry can of water. The rucksack contains a total of 25kg of sandbags and observation equipment, seven days of rations, spare batteries for the radios, demo. equipment and IV drips.

[randomtrader....]

After all,they were supposed to set up a Op to observe the MSR,but were compromised..hence by the end of the day,they ditched the bergens and went with all they could carry...

[bulletz4life]

After all,they were supposed to set up a Op to observe the MSR,but were compromised..hence by the end of the day,they ditched the bergens and went with all they could carry...

If it were me I'd ditch the bergens before even taking a footstep. The weight of each member's kit was estimated by McNab at 210 pounds (95kg) and by Ryan at 260 pounds (120kg).

Strangely, the story about how they were compromised is still very shady. Some say it was a sheperd who first. Some say it was a bulldozer they thought it was a tank and pointed their LAWs at it. Some say they were compromised first by the sheperd THEN by the bulldozer.

[randomtrader....]

let's not dwell on who killed who..just in case this spirals out..

[ImmaTERRARIST]

random, you're right, the Bergens were massive. We asians are too small for them really. Still, chances for the 57mm to not penetrate was rare. Could be that the Iraqi ammunition was old and therefore the amount of power diminished.

The operator wearing t-shirt and tac pants was certainly not tier1. He was just green beret. Tier 2/3 guy. I don't know really. I think they were just not strict with their attire and being so far away from the brass they couldn't care.

All this talk about B20 reminded me about a recent incident in Afganistan. A team of Navy Seals was in country observing taliban activity that was possibly Osama.

They were chanced upon by a goatherd and his son. The team caught them but didn't have the means to secure them until the mission was over because they were on a recon mission and didn't bring the necessary stuff to detain them. The team was afraid that the goatherd would alert the taliban if they let him go.

The only way to prevent the goatherd from telling the taliban was to shoot and kill them. The team argued about it until the team leader decided that he couldn't shoot unarmed civilians and set them free. The decision would haunt him.

The talibans soon knew about them and swamped them. They were out numbered. A Chinook carrying troops to extract them from the failed mission was shot down killing all on board. End of the day, only the team leader survived and he regretted his decision to let them live.

Yes his team was wiped out along with 13 other guys when the chinook was shot down trying to rescue them.

Shitty to be in his shoes.

[ImmaTERRARIST]

i really cannot imagine carrying 120kg on my back and going on missions. insane. My deployment load for Amber was already 65kg and I was walking slowly. Body armour and all the other stuff.
Thankfully SAF is on an all out drive to make things smaller and lighter. No point buying westerner stuff that we can't carry.

B20 was on the primary mission to hunt SCUDs. Locating enemy MSR was secondary (atleast according to McNab). The coliation forces had other units looking for MSRs including the E-8 JSTARS as well but the mission of SCUD hunting primarily fell to the SAS.
They also had a tertiary mission (if I didn't remember wrongly) of being on the ground to locate pilots (or friendlies) should any of them eject in their locality.

The MSR story was later used by them during their capture. with the addition of seeking and recovering combat soldiers who had escaped. This was to fool the Iraqi from their real mission.

[TomaTo]

Hats of to McNab and Ryan, but try read the books of Peter Radcliffe (RSGM during B20 mission) and one of Peter Delabilliere (CIC of SAS one time, and in charge of SOF during Desert Storm, if I remember correctly...). These books go to lengths to tell a slightly different story regarding B20. Very interesting reads.
Sorry for not mentioning the names of the books, but I am so old I just can't remember! 

[randomtrader....]

The one who got away,by chris ryan,i think he also mentioned a few other operations before and after desert storm..recommend anyone to read..

[recon]

All this talk about B20 reminded me about a recent incident in Afganistan. A team of Navy Seals was in country observing taliban activity that was possibly Osama.

They were chanced upon by a goatherd and his son. The team caught them but didn't have the means to secure them until the mission was over because they were on a recon mission and didn't bring the necessary stuff to detain them. The team was afraid that the goatherd would alert the taliban if they let him go.

The only way to prevent the goatherd from telling the taliban was to shoot and kill them. The team argued about it until the team leader decided that he couldn't shoot unarmed civilians and set them free. The decision would haunt him.

The talibans soon knew about them and swamped them. They were out numbered. A Chinook carrying troops to extract them from the failed mission was shot down killing all on board. End of the day, only the team leader survived and he regretted his decision to let them live.

Yes his team was wiped out along with 13 other guys when the chinook was shot down trying to rescue them.

Shitty to be in his shoes.

Please do not dishonor those who have died with your fan fiction and self-fabricated stories. FYI Lt Danny Murphy was the officer in charge during the Mission "Operation Redwing" not Marcus Luttrell and the vote was left to the men, Axel, Dietz, Luttrell to whether to set free the goat herders or kill them and the target was "Ahmad Shah" not "Osama"

True summary account of Operation Redwing

On June 28, 2005, deep behind enemy lines east of Asadabad in the Hindu Kush of Afghanistan, a very committed four-man Navy SEAL team was conducting a reconnaissance mission at the unforgiving altitude of approximately 10,000 feet. The SEALs, Lt. Michael Murphy, Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class (SEAL) Danny Dietz, Sonar Technician 2nd Class (SEAL) Matthew Axelson and Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class (SEAL) Marcus Luttrell had a vital task.  The four SEALs were scouting Ahmad Shah – a terrorist in his mid-30s who grew up in the adjacent mountains just to the south.

Under the assumed name Muhammad Ismail, Shah led a guerrilla group known to locals as the "Mountain Tigers" that had aligned with the Taliban and other militant groups close to the Pakistani border. The SEAL mission was compromised when the team was spotted by local nationals, who presumably reported its presence and location to the Taliban.

A fierce firefight erupted between the four SEALs and a much larger enemy force of more than 50 anti-coalition militia.  The enemy had the SEALs outnumbered.  They also had terrain advantage.  They launched a well-organized, three-sided attack on the SEALs.  The firefight continued relentlessly as the overwhelming militia forced the team deeper into a ravine.  

Trying to reach safety, the four men, now each wounded, began bounding down the mountain's steep sides, making leaps of 20 to 30 feet. Approximately 45 minutes into the fight, pinned down by overwhelming forces, Dietz, the communications petty officer, sought open air to place a distress call back to the base. But before he could, he was shot in the hand, the blast shattering his thumb.

Despite the intensity of the firefight and suffering grave gunshot wounds himself, Murphy is credited with risking his own life to save the lives of his teammates. Murphy, intent on making contact with headquarters, but realizing this would be impossible in the extreme terrain where they were fighting, unhesitatingly and with complete disregard for his own life moved into the open, where he could gain a better position to transmit a call to get help for his men.

Moving away from the protective mountain rocks, he knowingly exposed himself to increased enemy gunfire.  This deliberate and heroic act deprived him of cover and made him a target for the enemy.  While continuing to be fired upon, Murphy made contact with the SOF Quick Reaction Force at Bagram Air Base and requested assistance. He calmly provided his unit’s location and the size of the enemy force while requesting immediate support for his team. At one point he was shot in the back causing him to drop the transmitter. Murphy picked it back up, completed the call and continued firing at the enemy who was closing in.  Severely wounded, Lt. Murphy returned to his cover position with his men and continued the battle.

An MH-47 Chinook helicopter, with eight additional SEALs and eight Army Night Stalkers aboard, was sent is as part of an extraction mission to pull out the four embattled SEALs.  The MH-47 was escorted by heavily-armored, Army attack helicopters. Entering a hot combat zone, attack helicopters are used initially to neutralize the enemy and make it safer for the lightly-armored, personnel-transport helicopter to insert.

The heavy weight of the attack helicopters slowed the formation’s advance prompting the MH-47 to outrun their armored escort.  They knew the tremendous risk going into an active enemy area in daylight, without their attack support, and without the cover of night.  Risk would, of course, be minimized if they put the helicopter down in a safe zone. But knowing that their warrior brothers were shot, surrounded and severely wounded, the rescue team opted to directly enter the oncoming battle in hopes of landing on brutally hazardous terrain.

As the Chinook raced to the battle, a rocket-propelled grenade struck the helicopter, killing all 16 men aboard.

On the ground and nearly out of ammunition, the four SEALs, Murphy, Luttrell, Dietz and Axelson, continued the fight.  By the end of the two-hour gunfight that careened through the hills and over cliffs, Murphy, Axelson and Dietz had been killed. An estimated 35 Taliban were also dead.
 
The fourth SEAL, Luttrell, was blasted over a ridge by a rocket propelled grenade and was knocked unconscious. Regaining consciousness some time later, Luttrell managed to escape – badly injured – and slowly crawl away down the side of a cliff. Dehydrated, with a bullet wound to one leg, shrapnel embedded in both legs, three vertebrae cracked; the situation for Luttrell was grim. Rescue helicopters were sent in, but he was too weak and injured to make contact. Traveling seven miles on foot he evaded the enemy for nearly a day. Gratefully, local nationals came to his aid, carrying him to a nearby village where they kept him for three days. The Taliban came to the village several times demanding that Luttrell be turned over to them. The villagers refused.  One of the villagers made his way to a Marine outpost with a note from Luttrell, and U.S. forces launched a massive operation that rescued him from enemy territory on July 2.

By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit and inspirational devotion to his men in the face of certain death, Lt. Murphy was able to relay the position of his unit, an act that ultimately led to the rescue of Luttrell and the recovery of the remains of the three who were killed in the battle.

This was the worst single-day U.S. Forces death toll since Operation Enduring Freedom began nearly six years ago.  It was the single largest loss of life for Naval Special Warfare since World War II.

The Naval Special Warfare (NSW) community will forever remember June 28, 2005 and the heroic efforts and sacrifices of our special operators.  We hold with reverence the ultimate sacrifice that they made while engaged in that fierce fire fight on the front lines of the global war on terrorism (GWOT).

-NSW-

OPERATION REDWING KIAs- On June 28, 2005, three of four SEALS on the ground (Murphy, Dietz, Axelson) were  killed during combat operations in support of Operation Red Wing.  ON the same say, a QRF of eight Navy SEALs and 8 Army Night Stalkers were also killed when the MH-47 helicopter that they were aboard was shot down by enemy fire in the vicinity of Asadabad, Afghanistan in Kumar Province.  

[ImmaTERRARIST]

Recon, poor memory does not insult/dishonour. I don't know where you get the idea from. I find your indicment of me by insisting (without grounds) that I am creating fan fiction and self-fabricated stories offensive.

It will be up to you if you want to apologise or remain one without a sense of right and wrong.

[recon]

Recon, poor memory does not insult/dishonour. I don't know where you get the idea from. I find your indicment of me by insisting (without grounds) that I am creating fan fiction and self-fabricated stories offensive.

It will be up to you if you want to apologise or remain one without a sense of right and wrong.

Poor memory doesn't give you the right to twist the story into a version of your own and FYI some of the team guys are friends of mine and by not providing the correct details of what had actually happened is dishonoring those who died. If you were to have posted this on other US forums, i doubt the response given would as mild as mine. Lastly, i do not need to apologize for what i stated is the fact and the truth

[ImmaTERRARIST]

I did not twist. Just took it off my head.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friends.
It is on your own definition of how one dishonours those who died.
But an opinion is not a fact or a truth.